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DOUG. Call centre busts, cracking cryptography, and patches galore.
All that extra on the Naked Security podcast.
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Welcome to the podcast, all people – thanks for listening!
My title is Doug Aamoth; he’s Paul Ducklin.
Paul, how do you do?
DUCK. Very effectively, Douglas.
DOUG. All proper.
We like begin the present with a This Week in Tech History section, and I’ve a twofer for you as we speak – two issues that went reside this week.
One in 1863 and one in 2009.
Both thrilling, one maybe much less controversial than the opposite.
We’re speaking, after all, concerning the first stretch of the London Underground going into service in 1863, the primary underground system of its variety.
And then we’ve obtained the Bitcoin floodgates opening in 2009, the primary decentralised cryptocurrency of its variety.
Although we should always pencil in an asterisk, as a result of Bitcoin adopted within the footsteps of such digital currencies as eCash and DigiCash within the Nineteen Eighties and Nineteen Nineties.
DUCK. Yes, the latter was a fairly completely different kind of “underground movement” to the primary, wasn’t it?
DOUG. [LAUGHS] Exactly, sure!
DUCK. But you’re proper… 160 years of the London Underground!
DOUG. That’s superb.
Let us discuss this…
DUCK. [LAUGHS] You skipped the necessity to discuss Bitcoin/Controversy
DOUG. Oh!
DUCK. Let’s go away our listeners to ponder that one for themselves, Doug, as a result of I believe everybody has to have their very own opinion about the place Bitcoin led us… [LAUGHS]
DOUG. And their very own story.
I had an opportunity to purchase it at $30 a coin and thought that was approach too costly.
DUCK. Yes, Doug, however if you happen to’d purchased at $30, you’ll have offered at $60 and gone round patting your self on the again and bragging to all people.
DOUG. Oh, not even $60!
DUCK. Yes, precisely…
DOUG. I’d have offered at $40. [LAUGHS]
And sticking with the topic of remorse, there was a faux name centre in Ukraine that obtained busted:
Inside a scammers’ lair: Ukraine busts 40 in faux financial institution call-centre raid
This name centre appears to be like nicer inside than a number of the startups I’ve labored at.
So that’s one thing – it is a full infrastructure right here.
What occurred with this story, Paul?
DUCK. Like you say, it appears to be like like a pleasant little startup, however surprisingly, if you take a look at the pictures supplied by the Ukraine cyberpolice, nobody appeared to have turned up for work that day.
And it wasn’t that they went throughout the trip. [LAUGHTER]
It was that each one the individuals – and there have been, I believe, three founders and 37 workers, so this was a biggish boutique enterprise…
…they had been all within the subsequent room getting arrested, Doug.
Because though it was a name centre, their major aim was preying on victims out of the country.
In reality, on this case, they had been particularly concentrating on victims in Kazakhstan with banking scams.
Basically, the place they name up they usually’re speaking to you utilizing the identical kind of language that the financial institution would, following a fastidiously deliberate script that convinces the particular person, or convinces sufficiently most of the individuals they’re calling.
Remember, they’ve obtained an extended record, to allow them to cope with numerous hang-ups, however finally they’ll persuade somebody that they are surely speaking to the financial institution.
And as soon as the opposite finish believes that they are surely speaking to the financial institution, then…
Everyone says, “Oh, they should have realised it was a scam; they should have known when they were asked to transfer the funds, when they were asked to read out 2FA codes, when they were asked to hand over passwords, when they were asked to disclose details about the account.”
But it’s simple to say that with hindsight…
DOUG. And I believe we’ve talked about this on prior exhibits – when individuals ask, “How could someone fall for this?”
Well, they make a whole bunch and a whole bunch of calls, however they solely must trick one particular person. (In this case, it appears to be like like they defrauded about 18,000 individuals!)
So you don’t want a super-high hit fee based mostly in your calls.
That’s what makes these so harmful… when you get a sufferer on the road, and also you get entry to their checking account, you simply begin sucking the cash proper out.
DUCK. Once somebody genuinely believes that they *are* speaking to the financial institution, they usually’ve obtained a name centre one who’s “really” (apparently!) attempting to assist them – most likely giving them higher service, assist, time, and compassion than any name centre they’ve known as themselves currently…
Once the particular person has crossed that bridge, you’ll be able to see why they could get drawn in.
And, after all, as quickly because the crooks had sufficient personally identifiable info to fleece the particular person, they’d leap in and begin sucking cash out of their account, and transferring it to different accounts they managed…
…so they may then transfer it on instantly, out of the common banking system, shoving it into cryptocurrencies.
And that was what they did, day in, time out.
I don’t have a lot compassion for individuals who don’t have a lot compassion for the victims of those scams, to be trustworthy, Doug.
I believe loads of techies generally look down their noses: “How could a person fall for this phishing scam? It’s full of mistakes, it’s full of spelling errors, it’s badly punctuated, it’s got a weird URL in it.”
You know, life’s like that!
I can see why individuals do fall for this – it’s not troublesome for social engineer to speak to somebody in a approach that it appears like they’re confirming safety particulars, or that they’re going to say to you, “Let me just check with you that this really is your address”…
..however then, as an alternative of *them* studying out your tackle, they’ll by some means wangle the dialog so *you* blurt it out first.
And then, “Oh, yes!” – they’ll simply agree with you.
It’s surprisingly simple for somebody who’s carried out this earlier than, and who’s practised being a scammer, to guide the dialog in a approach that makes you’re feeling that it’s respectable when it completely isn’t.
Like I stated, I don’t suppose it is best to level any fingers or be judgmental about individuals who fall for this.
And on this case, 18,000 individuals went for… I believe, a median of 1000’s of {dollars} every.
That’s some huge cash, loads of turnover, for a medium sized enterprise of 40 individuals, isn’t it, Doug?
DOUG. [WRY] That’s not too shabby… apart from the illegality of all of it.
We do have some recommendation within the article, a lot of which we’ve stated earlier than.
Certain issues like…
Not believing anybody who contacts you out of the blue and says that they’re serving to you with an investigation.
Don’t belief the contact particulars given to you by somebody on the opposite finish of the telephone….
DUCK. Exactly.
DOUG. We’ve talked about Caller ID, how that can’t be trusted:
Voice-scamming website “iSpoof” seized, 100s arrested in large crackdown
Don’t be talked into to handing over your private knowledge with the intention to show your identification – the onus ought to be on them.
And then, after all, don’t switch funds to different accounts.
DUCK. Yes!
Of course, all of us want to do this at occasions – that’s the advantage of digital banking, significantly if you happen to reside in a far-flung area the place your financial institution hass closed branches and so you’ll be able to’t go in anymore.
And you do generally want so as to add new recipients, and to undergo the entire course of with passwords, and 2FA, and authentication, the whole lot to say, “Yes, I do want to pay money to this person that I’ve never dealt with before.”
You are allowed to do this, however deal with including a brand new recipient with the acute warning it deserves.
And if you happen to don’t truly know the particular person, then tread very fastidiously certainly!
DOUG. And the final bit of recommendation…
Instead of claiming, “How could people fall for this?” – since *you* won’t fall for this, look out for family and friends who could also be weak.
DUCK. Absolutely.
Make certain that your family and friends know, if they’ve the slightest doubt, that they need to Stop – Think – and and Connect *with you first*, and ask on your help.
Never be pressurised by worry, or cajoling, or weedling, or something that comes from the opposite finish.
DOUG. Fear – cajoling – wheedling!
And we transfer on to a traditional kerfuffle regarding RSA and the expertise media…
…and attempting to determine whether or not RSA will be cracked.
DUCK. Yes, this was an interesting paper.
I believe there are 20-something co-authors, all of whom are listed as major authors, foremost authors, on the paper.
It got here out of China, and it mainly goes like this…
“Hey, guys, you understand that there are these items known as quantum computer systems?
And in principle, in case you have an excellent {powerful} quantum laptop with one million qubits (that’s a quantum binary storage unit, the equal of a bit, however for a quantum laptop)… in case you have a pc with one million qubits, then, in principle, you possibly can most likely crack encryption programs just like the venerable RSA (Rivest – Shamir – Adleman).
However, the most important quantum laptop but constructed, after years and years of attempting, has simply over 400 qubits. So we’re a good distance in need of having a robust sufficient quantum laptop to get this superb speed-up that lets us crack issues that we beforehand thought uncrackable.
However, we expect we’ve give you a approach of optimising the algorithm so that you just truly solely want a couple of hundred qubits. A nd possibly, simply possibly, we have now subsequently paved the best way to cracking RSA-2048.”
2048 is the variety of bits within the prime product that you just use for RSA.
If you’ll be able to take that product of two 1024- bit prime numbers, massive prime numbers…
…*if* you’ll be able to take that 2048-bit quantity and factorise it, divide it again into the 2 numbers that had been multiplied collectively, you’ll be able to crack the system.
And the speculation is that, with standard computer systems, it’s simply not doable.
Not even a super-rich authorities might construct sufficient computer systems that had been {powerful} sufficient to do this work of factorising the quantity.
But, as I say, with this super-powerful quantum laptop, which nobody’s close to constructing but, possibly you possibly can do it.
And what these authors had been claiming is, “Actually we found a shortcut.”
DOUG. Do they element the shortcut within the paper, or are they simply saying, “Here’s a theory”?
DUCK. Well, the paper is 32 pages, and half of it’s and appendix, which has a fair greater “squiggle factor” than the remainder of the paper.
So sure, they’ve obtained this *description*, however the issue is that they didn’t truly do it.
They simply stated, “Yypothetically, you might be able to do this; you may be able to do the other. And we did a simulation using a really stripped-down problem”… I believe, with only a few simulated qubits.
They didn’t attempt it on an actual quantum laptop, they usually didn’t present that it truly works.
And the one downside that they really solved in “proving how quickly” (airquotes!) they may do it’s a factorising downside that my very own very-many-year-old laptop computer can resolve anyway in about 200 milliseconds on a single core, utilizing a very unoptimised, standard algorithm.
So the consensus appears to be… [PAUSE] “It’s a nice theory.”
However, we did communicate – I believe, within the final podcast – about cryptographic agility.
If you’re within the United States, Congress says *in a regulation* that you just want cryptographic agility!
We collectively want it, in order that if we do have a cryptographic algorithm which is discovered wanting, we are able to change quickly, shortly, simply…
…and, higher but, we are able to swap even upfront of the ultimate crack being found out.
And that particularly applies due to the worry of how {powerful} quantum computer systems may be for some sorts of cryptographic cracking issues.
But it additionally applies to *any* problem the place we’re utilizing an encryption system or a web-based safety protocol that we instantly realise, “Oh, it doesn’t work like we thought – we can’t carry on using the old one because the bottom fell out of that bucket.”
We have to be not worrying about how we’re going to patch stated bucket for the following ten years!
We want to have the ability to chuck out the outdated, carry within the new, and produce everybody with us.
That’s the lesson to study from this.
So, RSA doesn’t appear to have been cracked!
There’s an attention-grabbing theoretical paper, in case you have the very specialised arithmetic to wade by way of it, however the consensus of different cryptographic specialists appears to be alongside the strains of: “Nothing to see here yet.”
DOUG. And after all, the concept is that if and when this does change into crackable, we’ll have a greater system in place anyway, so it gained’t matter as a result of we’re cryptographically agile.
DUCK. Indeed.
DOUG. Last however not least, allow us to discuss the latest Patch Tuesday.
We’ve obtained one zero-day, however maybe even greater than that, we are saying, “Thanks for the memories, Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, we hardly knew ye.”
Microsoft Patch Tuesday: One 0-day; Win 7 and eight.1 get last-ever patches
DUCK. Well, I don’t learn about “hardly”, Doug. [LAUGHTER]
Some of us appreciated one in every of you a large number, a lot they didn’t need to give it up…
..nd loads of you, apparently, didn’t like the opposite in any respect.
DOUG. Yes, type of an ungainly going-away occasion!
DUCK. So a lot in order that there by no means was a Windows 9, if you happen to keep in mind.
Somehow, a drained canal was positioned between Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.
So, let’s not go into the main points of all of the patches – there are completely a great deal of them.
There’s one zero-day, which I believe is an elevation of privilege, and that applies proper from Windows 8.1 all the best way to Windows 11 2022H2, the latest launch.
So that’s an enormous reminder that even when crooks are searching for vulnerabilities within the newest model of Windows, as a result of that’s what most individuals are utilizing, usually these vulnerabilities turn into “retrofittable” again a good distance.
In reality, I believe Windows 7 had 42 CVE-numbered bugs patched; Windows 8.1 had 48.
And I believe, as an entire, in all the Windows merchandise, there have been 90 CVEs listed on their web site, and 98 CVE-numbered bugs patched altogether, suggesting that about half of the bugs that had been truly mounted (all of them have CVE-2023- numbers, in order that they’re all just lately found bugs)…
…about 50% of them go approach again, if you wish to return that far.
So, for the main points of all of the fixes, go to information.sophos.com, the place SophosLabs has printed a extra detailed evaluation of Patch Tuesday.
DUCK. On Naked Security, the actual factor we wished to remind you about is…
…if you happen to nonetheless have Windows 7, otherwise you’re a kind of individuals who nonetheless has Windows 8.1 (as a result of any individual should have appreciated it), *you aren’t going to get any extra safety updates ever*.
Windows 7 had three years of “You can pay a whole lot of extra money and get extended security updates,”, the ESU programme, as they name it.
But Windows 8.1?
The factor that offers credibility to that argument that they wished to depart a dry ditch known as Windows 9 between 8.1 and 10 is that Microsoft is now asserting:
“This prolonged assist factor that we do, the place we’ll fortunately take cash off you for as much as three years for merchandise which might be actually historic?
We’re not going to do this with Windows 8.1.”
So, concurrently Windows 7 sails into the sundown, so does Windows 8.1.
So… if you happen to don’t need to transfer on on your personal sake, please do it for mine, and for Doug’s [LAUGHTER], and for everyone else’s.
Because you aren’t going to get any extra safety fixes, so there’ll simply be increasingly more unpatched holes as time goes on.
DOUG. All proper!
We do have a touch upon this text that we’d prefer to highlight.
It does should do with the lacking Windows 9.
Naked Security reader Damon writes:
“My recollection of the explanation there was no Windows 9 was to keep away from poorly written model checking code erroneously concluding that one thing reporting ‘Windows 9’ was Windows 95 or Windows 98.
That’s what I learn on the time, anyway – I don’t know the veracity of the declare.”
Now, I had heard the identical factor you probably did, Paul, that this was extra of a advertising and marketing factor so as to add a little bit distance…
DUCK. The “firebreak”, sure! [LAUGHS]
I don’t suppose we’ll ever know.
I’ve seen, and even reported within the article, on a number of of those tales.
One, as you say, it was the firebreak: if we simply skip Windows 9 and we go straight to Windows 10, it’ll really feel like we’ve distanced ourselves from the previous.
I heard the story that they wished a recent begin, and that the quantity wasn’t going to be a quantity anymore.
They wished to interrupt the sequence intentionally, so the product would simply be known as “Windows Ten”, after which it might get sub-versions.
The downside is that that story is type of undermined by the truth that there’s now Windows 11! [LAUGHTER]
And the opposite downside with the “Oh, it’s because they might hear Windows 9 and think it’s Windows 95 when they’re doing version checking” is…
My recollection is that truly if you used the now-deprecated Windows perform GetVersion() to search out out the model quantity, it didn’t let you know “Windows Vista” or “Windows XP”.
It truly gave you a significant model DOT minor model.
And amazingly, if I’m remembering accurately, Vista was Windows 6.0.
Windows 7, get this, was Windows 6.1… so there’s already loads of room for confusion lengthy earlier than “Winsows 9” was coming alongside.
Windows 8 was home windows 6.2; Windows 8.1 was basically Windows 6.3.
But as a result of Microsoft stated, “No, we’re not using this GetVersion() command any more”, till this present day (I put some code within the article – I attempted it on the Windows 11 2022H2 launch)…
unsigned int GetVersion(void);
int printf(const char* fmt,...);
int foremost(void) {
unsigned int ver = GetVersion();
printf("GetVersion() returned %08X:n",ver);
printf("%u.%u (Build %u)n",ver&255,(ver>>8)&255,(ver>>16)&65535);
return 0;
}
…to this present day, except you’ve a specifically packaged, designed-for-a-particular-version-of-Windows executable set up, if you happen to simply take a plain EXE and run it, it would let you know to this present day that you just’ve obtained Windows 6.2 (which is actually Windows 8):
GetVersion() returned 23F00206: 6.2 (Build 9200)
And, from reminiscence the Windows 9x sequence, which was Windows 95, Windows 98, and naturally Windows Me, was truly model 4-dot-something.
So I’m undecided I purchase this “Windows 9… version confusion” story.
Firstly, we’d have already got had that confusion when Windows Me got here out, as a result of it didn’t begin with a “9”, but. It was from that sequence.
So merchandise would have already got needed to repair that downside.
And secondly, even Windows 8 didn’t establish itself as “8” – it was nonetheless main model 6.
So I don’t know what to consider, Doug.
I’m sticking to the “drained and uncrossable emergency separation canal theory” myself!
DOUG. Alright, we’ll persist with that for now.
Thank you very a lot, Damon, for sending that in.
If you’ve an attention-grabbing story, remark, or query you’d prefer to submit, we’d like to learn it on the podcast.
You can e mail ideas@sophos.com, touch upon any one in every of our articles, or you’ll be able to hit us up on social: @NakedSecurity.
That’s our present for as we speak; thanks very a lot for listening.
For Paul Ducklin, I’m Doug Aamoth, reminding you, till subsequent time, to…
BOTH. Stay Secure!
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