In this interview, Dr. Shawn Baker discusses the carnivore food regimen, why he’s on it and why he thinks it may be a helpful alternative for others. He additionally has an everyday podcast known as “Revero,” the place he shares his experience on this matter. Revero is the identify of the corporate he cofounded, which makes a speciality of getting folks off prescribed drugs utilizing food regimen and different life-style modifications.
Baker’s background is definitely that of an orthopedic surgeon. He’s additionally a aggressive athlete and performed skilled rugby in New Zealand for quite a lot of years. As he entered his 40s, he began experimenting with diet, and round 2008 received hooked on the ketogenic food regimen.
From Orthopedic Surgeon to Lifestyle Coach
Around the identical time, orthopedic surgeons had been informed to not function on morbidly overweight sufferers (a physique mass index of 35 or increased) to encourage them to shed weight, thereby decreasing their threat of surgical issues and bettering outcomes. One factor led to a different, and on the finish of all of it, Baker ended up remodeling his profession.
“I began suggesting these low carb ketogenic diets with my sufferers. Not all of them would attempt it, however a few of them did. The ones that did, not solely would a few of them shed weight, however what was extra profound and attention-grabbing is they might have a profound discount of their ache, a lot in order that many had been taken off the OR schedule.
Well that factor received me considering, ‘Why can’t I do this for more patients?’ So, I began to speaking about that. I printed out flyers of books and movies you might watch. I’d hand out 20 a day, simply, as a result of I used to be seeing 40, 50 sufferers a day and at the very least 20 of them I assumed may benefit from this.
That received irritating as a result of it was a really inefficient approach to get this message out, so I talked to the hospital administration. I stated, ‘I’d like to spend half a day once a week doing some lifestyle counseling.’ What actually shocked me was their profound reluctance to try this. They flat out stated, ‘No, that’s not happening.’
I used to be an worker of the hospital. I used to be the pinnacle of the surgical group. I used to be like, wait a minute, I’m making these folks keep away from operations which have potential issues. Then I rapidly realized … we have to make income. I used to be an excellent income as a result of I used to be one of many busiest surgeons within the hospital …
I ended up leaving and went on to do what I’m doing now, which is selling life-style. I received to say, I’m a lot happier. I loved what I did as a surgeon, nevertheless it’s nowhere close to the satisfaction I get as we speak, seeing folks’s lives utterly change …
So, in my dietary journey, I went on this low carb ketogenic food regimen, [but I also] noticed these loopy folks doing an all-meat food regimen. I assumed, ‘God, that’s so stupid,’ however I used to be morbidly curious. I simply adopted these guys on social media … I saved studying [while thinking] ‘I can’t believe this is true.’”
Entering the World of Carnivore
In 2016, he lastly took the plunge and determined to attempt the carnivore food regimen for himself, first consuming nothing however animal meals for one complete day, then two and three days in a row. By the tip of that 12 months, he went an entire month consuming a meat-only food regimen.
Despite fears of struggling all types of damaging well being results, he truly ended up feeling the most effective he had in a decade. So, he saved going, and after two months, his continual tendonitis vanished. He’s now been on a carnivore food regimen for six years.
“I don’t think everybody has to do it,” he says. “I do not assume it is the one manner. I feel there are those who uniquely profit from this. Even when you use it for a time frame as an elimination part — three to 6 months, perhaps a 12 months. Then many individuals are in a position to incorporate just a few different issues. It’s been an attention-grabbing journey. I’ve actually loved it.
I’ve seen unbelievable, life remodeling tales again and again … I had a man who was identified with ADHD as a younger youngster and on all these meds; suicidal, out and in of the ER 200 instances. I imply 200 instances by the ER. How a lot does that value?
We put him on an all-meat food regimen and he’s like, ‘I’m done [with the meds]. I don’t need any of this stuff.’ How a lot does it value to feed the man rib eyes? $10 to $15 a day perhaps.
How a lot goes to the ER? … Much of well being care is concentrated in a small share of individuals which might be ‘repeat offenders,’ as they name them. They simply proceed to go to the emergency room again and again for varied causes, some psychiatric …
There at the moment are a number of research which have come out this food regimen, all of which present it very positively. There are not any damaging research on the market. Maybe some shall be produced down the street, however in my opinion the default reply at this level is that it is useful for folks … Especially for autoimmune associated illnesses, issues like Crohn’s illness and ulcerative colitis. It appears to be extraordinarily highly effective for these sufferers.
Quite a lot of them are on tremendous costly biologic medicine which have negative effects. There’s elevated threat of an infection, elevated threat of most cancers. I imply it is simply weird how our medical system has gone. Particularly in the previous few years, lots of people have grow to be considerably distrustful of our medical authorities and I feel for good cause.”
Is a Carnivore Diet Sustainable?
Like most diets, carnivore diets can vary in severity. Dr. Paul Saladino, one other well-known advocate of the carnivore food regimen, has diverged a bit from his earlier stance and now integrates meals like fruit and honey, as much as 250 grams of carbohydrates a day.
Baker’s staples are steak and eggs, however he too will add different meals from time to time. “It’s not a religion to me,” he says, “but I legitimately feel best when I’m just eating a bunch of red meat.” At 6 foot 5 inches, 250 kilos, and a really energetic life-style, Baker routinely eats between 3 and 4 kilos of meat a day, which equates to 300 grams of protein a day. He goes on:
“I do not assume all people must be on a carnivore food regimen. I feel some folks can undoubtedly profit, and I feel a interval of strict might be helpful. Some folks select to proceed to try this. I do not see a giant downside for most individuals. I do know that is controversial, however I’ve seen tens of 1000’s of individuals do that indefinitely.
I do know there is a thought that low-carbohydrate diets typically are unsustainable. Yet you have received folks which were doing it for 25, 30 years … I feel for some folks, and that is the place I’d disagree with Paul [who tells] folks it’s essential to eat fruits and honey to be optimized or wholesome. I do not assume that is essentially true.
That’s my remark. I are likely to go by what is going on on outcomes smart and I’ve collected knowledge on 12,000 folks on the food regimen … There was a paper that simply got here out on hidradenitis suppurativa [painful lesions in the groin]. It was a case examine. [After] 43 days on the carnivore food regimen, growth, gone.”
One potential cause for why sure circumstances, resembling autoimmune problems, enhance on the carnivore food regimen could possibly be since you’re eradicating most or all sources of oxalates, present in could plant meals, and plant lectins. Both can set off irritation and quite a lot of well being points.
The Cholesterol Issue
One of the criticisms hurled that those that advocate for a carnivore food regimen is that it might trigger coronary heart illness by permitting your ldl cholesterol to spiral uncontrolled. Baker addresses this concern saying:
“My complete ldl cholesterol runs wherever between 180 and 250, someplace in there. I had a coronary artery calcium scan as effectively, and it’s zero … When I assessed my lipoprotein A, it was 2, which is about as little as it probably comes. Lots of people inform you it is genetic, however there are research displaying that saturated fats will truly drive lipoprotein A down, which is attention-grabbing, as a result of once more, I eat quite a lot of saturated fat …
Most folks say, ‘You need to be on a statin or a low-fat diet’ primarily based on the place I’m at. But I additionally take a look at all my different threat components. Inflammatory numbers, blood strain, physique composition.
I imply, I’m setting world data as an athlete. You do not try this with a foul cardiovascular system. I imply, it is loopy. When any person involves me and says, ‘Hey doc, my LDL cholesterol has shot up to 304. It was 200.’ I do not inform folks to disregard that.
I feel it is only a scenario during which it’s important to get extra data, whereas most physicians will say, ‘Stop immediately. Go on a statin.’ I feel it’s important to be extra circumspect about this. Look at nuance.
One of the issues which you discuss is apoB [apolipoprotein B]. If apoB is elevated, it does not matter what number of particles or the scale of the particles. It’s quite a lot of apoB that you just’re uncovered to over time and that is going to result in a injury.
Now there’s one other a part of that equation. If you consider the mannequin the place LDL ldl cholesterol is causal, and it will get pushed below the endothelium of the blood vessels, there’s two sides of that equation. One of them is a receptor, or moderately the blood vessel itself and the way ‘sticky’ it’s. That has to rely on protein glycan content material, these glycosaminoglycans which might be below modification. What modifies it?
Well, we all know diabetes medicine and blood strain meds make the vessels stickier. If you’ve received extra LDL ldl cholesterol [but] your vessels aren’t very sticky, does that cancel one another out? I do not know, however might you discover that out? Imaging is the way in which I usually method it if the individual is of acceptable age. A 20-year-old does not have to be getting a CAT scan or something like that.
If you are 40-plus and your LDL is excessive however you are like, ‘I don’t want to change because I feel so good’ … then get some imaging, get carotid Doppler research. You can get angiography, which is dearer and tends to be slightly extra invasive. There are methods to watch this moderately than simply occurring a low-fat food regimen.”
Carnivore Diet Is Very Low in Unhealthy Fats
One of the first advantages of a carnivore food regimen — so long as you deal with crimson meat and restrict hen and pork — is that it’s a very low omega-6 fats food regimen. As I element in “How Linoleic Acid Wrecks Your Health,” the worst fat you might probably eat are seed oils as a result of they’re loaded with omega-6 fats, and 60% to 80% of that fats is linoleic acid (LA), which is the worst of all.
I’m satisfied LA is a major contributor to just about all continual illnesses, because it acts as a metabolic poison. Over the final 150 years, the LA within the human food regimen has elevated from about 2 to three grams a day to 30 or 40 grams. LA used to make up 1% to three% of the vitality within the human food regimen and now it makes up 15% to twenty%.
Most of it comes from seed oils, present in most processed meals and condiments, however hen and pork additionally include excessive quantities of LA, due to the grains they’re fed. Baker feedback:
“Clearly, polyunsaturated fatty acids [PUFAs] and seeds oils aren’t a part of the pure human food regimen. They had been solely invented within the late 1800s. I do not care what you argue we had been consuming 1,000 years in the past, 10,000 years in the past, 300,000 years in the past, 3 million years in the past … we weren’t consuming these items. They aren’t a part of the pure human food regimen.
The different factor that is a giant confounder right here is, the place are these items often discovered? They’re nearly at all times, with uncommon exception, present in extremely processed meals. It’s a proxy measure for the way a lot processed meals you are consuming.
Either manner, [the carnivore diet] goes to get the PUFA out of your food regimen to a big diploma … Just by eradicating that ingredient [seed oils], you’re eradicating the processed rubbish out of your food regimen. One manner or the opposite, it is serving to you.”
Yes, Saturated Fat Is Great for Your Health
Saturated animal fat, alternatively, are wholesome, and have been exonerated scientifically as effectively. Back in 2017, the American Heart Association confirmed its business bias when it despatched out a warning saying saturated fat resembling butter ought to be averted to chop your threat of coronary heart illness.
The downside was the info and science they relied on was utterly outdated and had been refuted and confirmed mistaken a number of instances. For particulars, see “AHA Renders Itself Obsolete With Long-Refuted Dietary Advice.”
“There was a study published about a month ago that talked about the boogeyman of saturated fat,” Baker says. “It was a scientific assessment and it stated:
‘After examining all the RCTs [randomized controlled trials], observational studies and cohort studies, we see no evidence to show that saturated fat is an issue, particularly when it comes from whole foods.’
The different attention-grabbing factor with saturated fats is — and I noticed this knowledge — within the American food regimen many of the saturated fats we devour is within the type of junk meals, muffins, pastries, and different issues, whereas saturated fats coming from crimson meat is just about 3%. My food regimen is mainly all meat so I get all my saturated fats from meat. And to this point, no dangerous consequence.”
The Benefits of Carnosine
Another good thing about a carnivore food regimen has to do with carnosine, which is a sink for glycosylated lipids (ALEs) and sugars (AGEs). Glycation is when a glucose molecule attaches to a protein molecule. Hemoglobin A1C is a measure of glucose management over three months. Basically, it’s a measurement of glycated crimson blood cells.
Red meat accommodates carnosine, which acts as a sacrificial sink for these sorts of glycated lipids and AGEs. In different phrases, the glucose will connect to the carnosine and because of this, your glucose degree will go down. Carnosine can also be a long life molecule. Baker explains:
“[Carnosine] significantly impacts the central nervous system that manner. Our central nervous system is usually fats. Something like 25% of the ldl cholesterol in your physique resides in your mind. So, carnosine has been an exquisite instrument.
I feel that is the issue after we discuss meals. We break it down into totally different contents. ‘Oh my god, meat has saturated fats. Oh my God, cooking your meat goes to supply some AGEs, subsequently that is going to destroy you.’
Then you say, ‘Well what about all the carnosine, the carnitine, the taurine, the creatine?’ — all these items that counteract the [bad], as a result of we do not simply eat saturated fats by itself. It comes with all these different issues. We do not simply eat AGEs by themselves. There are these detoxing [molecules] …
Carnosine is only a great, great factor. The different level I needed to say is … lots of people that go carnivore, they appear to see advantages that happen as much as three years out. They discover it will get higher and higher.
I’m six years in. I do not know that I get dramatically higher, however I simply really feel good on a regular basis. I’m in a position to carry out and practice, and I’m not seeing that decline [in health with age] like different folks. At my age, you go searching at your friends and you are like, ‘Oh my god, everybody’s old and dead or near dead.’ Why am I not doing that?”
Will a Meat-Based Diet Harm Your Kidneys?
Another concern that makes many draw back from a meat-based food regimen is the worry that it’ll elevate your creatinine degree and injury your kidneys. As famous by Baker, it’s commonplace to see excessive creatinine ranges in massive, muscular folks. Your creatinine index is a surrogate of lean physique mass.
So, increased muscle mass interprets into increased serum creatinine. If you’re exercising arduous and breaking the muscle down greater than regular, you are going to have increased serum creatinine. Creatinine may also be excessive when you’re on a high-protein food regimen.
Glomerular filtration fee (GFR) is a measure of how effectively your kidneys are filtering metabolic waste. The downside with GFR is that it doesn’t have in mind your physique measurement or muscle mass. People with higher muscle mass can have decrease GFR, all issues being equal, in comparison with somebody with low muscle mass. Lower GFR is usually indicative of poorer kidney perform, however it may be misleading when you’re on a carnivore food regimen or have very excessive muscle mass.
For this cause, Baker prefers one other check known as cystatin C. It’s another approach to assess GFR and does not contain protein or protein turnover, whereas nonetheless assessing kidney perform.
“Just as an estimate, anytime I’ve any person with a excessive serum creatinine, I inform them to get a cystatin C [test]. It’s nearly at all times regular … For occasion, I simply did this the opposite day, if I calculate my GFR primarily based on creatinine, it is 56, which is taken into account low. If I calculate it primarily based on cystatin C, as a result of my creatinine was 1.92 the final time I checked, my GFR comes up round 124 as an alternative of 56.
I’ve additionally had my micro albumin checked immediately for protein, and it has been damaging. So, I’d simply, as an experiment, test it facet by facet. Get the GFR measured each by serum creatinine and cystatin C. You in all probability will discover that your kidney perform is healthier than you assume it’s …
[BM] Brenner within the Eighties did research on rats and mice, displaying that feeding them excessive protein diets led to glomerular injury. However, that does not carry over to people.
Stu Phillips, who’s one of many high protein researchers on this planet, did a pleasant paper in 2018, a meta-analysis assessment of excessive protein versus low protein diets; no distinction in any way in kidney perform.
David Unwin, who’s within the UK, has accomplished a pleasant examine on diabetics with compromised kidney perform, Stage 1, Stage 2 continual renal insufficiency. He’s seen them reverse by occurring high-protein diets and simply eradicating the rubbish. That’s an attention-grabbing remark.”
More Information
In this wide-ranging interview, we additionally focus on Baker’s train routine and suggestions for mitigating delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) after train. We additionally contact on different wholesome life-style methods, so for all the small print, you’ll want to take heed to the interview in its entirety.
To be taught extra about how the carnivore food regimen might help you, tune in to Baker’s podcast. His virtual-first clinic, Revero, will launch in early 2023, however you may join early entry when you’re .
“It’s a grass roots movement,” Baker says. “The government is not going to adopt a healthy diet style. Corporations, it’s just not in their business interest to do it. It’s got to be on the people to do it, and this is how we change things little by little.”